#324 – Living A Fearless Life With Colin Kingsmill

Thomas Green here with ethical marketing service on the episode. Today we have Colin Kingsmill, Colin welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. Very good to have you. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? Oh, yeah, sure, of course. Um So I do a few things. Um I’m the co founder of a company called Whole Human Coaching. And um in that, in that business, we, we work with teams and leaders on creating really cultural cohesion um in a very complex time as you know, for work um with Colin Kings Mill coaching. I work with uh founders and CEO S um on uh really helping them perform better and be better, better top leaders. And um I also have a consulting company called Insight Incorporated where I uh I help people on their branding, sales marketing and communications. It’s all really the same stuff though. Just uh just helping people get to where they need to go. So it’s all the same thing. Lots of big fancy names for uh for doing, doing one thing basically for helping people.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you for the introduction. Um, of all the things that I could ask you about. What are you, what’s your most, um, what are you most passionate about? Ah, I am most passionate about my, my purpose or mission in life if you like. And that is to help people rediscover their humanity to work and live in integrity, to become fearless. And if you can do all that to become free and really free, I mean, from psychological suffering or anything that’s holding you down. Um Yeah, that’s really my, that’s really my mantra. That’s what I, that’s what I work on doing every day. So, humanity, integrity, fearlessness and freedom. That’s it. Uh For me, well, there are some interesting topics and one in particular, uh that’s very popular on the internet is uh the topic of fear. Um What do you think about the, the conversation around the topic of fear that typically goes on the internet?

What are your thoughts when you, when you view those, uh those opinions? First of all, I’m glad that they’re happening, right? Because for so long and especially for guys, um for, or, or male, male males in your audience for so long. We, we never, um we never discussed these things, right? Uh It was sort of brushed under the, under, under the, under the carpet and I think it’s really important to, to, to have a dialogue and um no matter how wide the lens is on that dialogue, I think it’s good that it’s happening, right? Because if you are living in a fearful state that has all sort of waterfall um effects in terms of um depression or anxiety or boundary issues or trigger issues or, you know, there’s a, there’s a whole sort of cornucopia of, of challenges for us that arrive from that essential nugget of, of fear.

Right? And, um, and I think it’s good that there’s the conversation is, is going on. Um not easy to overcome, I think, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty easy for a lot of uh a lot of people on social media or on tiktok to, to sort of parse out quick solutions, right? Like just the, the um but that’s, that’s the era that we’re living in. But, but as long as you recognize that, that you need to dig deeper and drill deeper and go farther and that it is uh it, it’s a bit of a process, right? To remain fearless. Um And it’s not just the nugget that you’re gonna get from, from 15 seconds on tiktok, but good. I’m glad it’s happening. It should be, you know, um We live in a really complex time where fear is often served up to, you know, keep people engaged, to keep people on social media, to keep people watching the news, to keep people um in a divisive state, right?

So, um its important that we have those conversations because I think its its so paralyzing to so many people. OK. Positive take, I like it. Um in terms of a working definition or uh if, if not a working definition, then what’s the word actually mean to you? Fear here means being bounded and held down by stories and narratives that are in your head. Um So, so that’s why part of my sort of process of humanity and integrity of fearlessness and freedom is to unleash those shackle those shackles if you like, right? Um, because it’s a debilitating state of mind or state of play to be in, right? When you are fearful of, of anything, you, it clouds your choices, it clouds your decisions. It’s like looking through your glasses that are opaque, right? You’re, you’re, if you’re living through a lens of fear, you’re not seeing properly, you’re not seeing straight, you’re not seeing whatever is in front of you with clarity.

To me, it’s a, it’s, it’s a little bit like a ball and chain, you know, that, that just being held back, held down, depressed. I don’t mean depressed as in, um, the, the, the clinical way, but just pushed down by the weight of fear and it immobilizes a lot of people, right to make the right choices to make the choices they know they need to make and they don’t make them and then they begin to internalize the guilt. And, you know, so, so it’s a very destructive state of mind, emotion place to be. And, um, I don’t think we, I don’t think we realize, um, how destructive it is and how impactful it can be on your life. Right? Because you, you, if you’re fearful of, you know, what people might think or fearful about, um, expressing your true identity or fearful about expressing your dreams or your wishes or your desires or anything AAA business plan that ultimately is not good for the body.

And, uh people like Gabor Mate and, and there’s lots of others. Now speaking about these things, um those, those emotions stay in the body and it’s never good, it’s never good. It results in dis ease ultimately, or certainly dissatisfaction. And, and at a minimum, you mentioned uh anxiety, the question is around is do you make a distinction between the two or um are we just describing uh the same thing with two different words? Um I think anxiety is, is an acute form of, of fear is the expression of, of kind of the, the, the, the, the the pinnacle of that fearful place. So you can be sitting at home and have a sort of a baseline tension of fear, right? When the stories start to swirl around in your head about all of the negative possibilities and it gets worse and worse and worse, so much so that you might have a panic attack, right?

It’s for me, it’s just the pointy end of the, the, the the the spike if you want or the sword. But, but to, to get there, there’s a, there’s a journey so I wouldn’t call them the same thing necessarily. I would call, iw, I think anxiety is a, ok. So it’s, if that makes sense, I don’t know what you think. Yeah. Yeah. Fear would be milder than anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Because, because anxiety often it can be really debilitating. Right. And it can stop you in your tracks. It can, it can keep you at home, it can keep you from socializing. It can, you know, there’s a, there’s, there’s, it can, it can cause uh panic attacks. So, so to me, anxiety is like fear dialed up to 10. OK? Where, where it gets to the point of debilitating, right? Debilitating your physical actions. Baseline fear is, oh, I can’t say this because she’s gonna say that or I can’t do this because they’ll think that or I can’t make this choice because I’m, I feel financially insecure.

So, so I think they are quite distinct. I mean, living in fear still allows you to get through the day that being said it allow it, it, it, it, it’s in a sort of a contrived, boxed in way, but you can still function, right? Whereas, whereas anxiety depending on the level that, that you’re at can be very acute and um and totally just stop you. Do you have any thoughts around uh the difference between a fear that is valid? Like danger versus a fear, which is imagined. Sure. Sure. So, so there, there’s, again, it’s like the scale, right? So there’s a, there is, there’s a point at the, at the very sort of essential biological level where, you know, fight or flight is important, right? And it’s part of our evolutionary biology and we should know when to run, we should know when there’s a danger, we should follow our intuition, you know, if you are in a dangerous position or a situation that’s, that’s biological, evolutionary and, and, and very important, right?

So, so there, there’s the biology of, of fear and understanding when dangers need to be averted. And then there’s, there’s the build up from that right to, you know, fears that, that are um beliefs and stories and narratives that you’re telling yourself or that you, that you are, have incorporated into your daily life and, and then it gets worse and worse up to that point of anxiety, right? And there’s all kinds of sort of emotions in, in the way, but the uh the, the, the, the fear instinct uh uh with fight or flight is essential and it’s good, right? So, you know, you don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water and say that you can never be afraid, right? You should be in certain instances, right? For sure. Well, it leads me nicely into uh kind of like a segue if you like, which is we, you’ve gone over. Perhaps what the negative example of what this looks like, perhaps you wouldn’t use those words.

But what is an example of someone who is dealing with it in a positive way, let’s say they have a fear. And, um, what does that example look like for people? Well, look, I think you can see it. I think you can see it everywhere where people have said. All right, I’m gonna do it, you know, where, where there’s been sort of this fearful build up and it might be anything from as sort of trivial as bungee jumping or jumping out of an airplane or doing extreme sports or, or whatever. But it also, you, you also see it when people finally do make a decision, especially from a career perspective, right? To, to go hold on. I’ve been afraid of this decision for the, the longest time and they make it and it, and, and it’s like this sort of release from prison if you al you know, as a, as a metaphor, right? Like, like they, you, you burst out of that fearful place into the new, into the new U and there’s lots of examples, uh, around like that.

So one of them would be a great resource, um, that I always quote is Martha Beck and her book, uh, called The Way Of Integrity. I don’t know if you ever, you’ve ever heard of it, but, you know, she was a Harvard professor. She was married, she had family, she was tenured, you know, she ticked all the boxes in terms of success and lifestyle and, and all that. But it wasn’t for her. She was not happy, she was not who she really was. And she left all of that behind. Right. And has actually written the book. I, oh, I just said it the way of integrity and that’s an example of living in a fearful place, recognizing it and saying I can’t do this anymore. And then unleashing those chains of fear and creating the new, the new Martha Beck. And now she’s flourishing as an international best selling author and as an executive coach and she’s married, she’s, she’s got a, a new partner now. So everything changed.

I think there’s lots and lots of examples like that of people that have said, you know, I won’t say it here. But, but, you know, they said enough, uh, enough of the fearful place and, and the, and the way of being in the way of living and the way of working, I’m gonna make a change and, um, they come out on the other side, better off healthier, happier, fulfilled, purpose driven. Thank you for the example. Um, the three steps that you broke down from noticing that you’re doing it, making a decision and then changing your behavior. I kind of feel like people know what the first step and the third step would look like, but it’s the second step that they follow with uh that they struggle with rather um have you got any thoughts about how to speed that up? Because I would imagine it’s the length that is the problem there. You know, people can spend years over something that perhaps your expertise might help them speed up.

Mhm. Mhm. So, yeah, I mean, I just mentioned kind of three phases if you want, but you have to break down each of those phases into smaller pieces for sure. So first of all, the identification of the stories and the, and, and the headspace is really important, right? So, and the so recognize it is, is one inventory that it is the second, the second element that I think people have to do. So write down all of the stories that you’re telling yourself, all of the self limiting beliefs, all of the stuff that you nonchalantly say, oh, I can’t do this, I can’t done that or I’ve done this before. I, you know, those are all judgment calls on yourself. OK? So recognize it, do an inventory of all the stories that you’re telling yourself and what you wanna do in that, in that phase is in that initial phase as well as well. Is, is once you’ve done the inventory and you’ve, you’ve, and you it’s gotta be physical like you’ve got to write it down, OK?

Or document it on a video or, or some way, but you can’t just all stay in your head, document it right. Once you’ve even done an inventory of your self limiting beliefs or the fearful beliefs or the judgments or whatever, you’re whatever you’re saying to yourself, you then look at each one of those and decide. Is that true? Is it serving me today? If it’s not, where did it come from and go and forgive that person or that time and that place that created that idea? Ok? Or that story because that’s all it is, right? Once you’ve done that, ok, you can then begin in the second phase to begin to think of the new, you like the new story, right? The new stories that you’re gonna tell in your head that are less fearful that are fearless. Ok? But, but to do that, I kind of have a, a few, a few steps, right. It’s not just one, you know, stop being fearful. It’s the, the first thing I know it’s not a tiktok video. It takes a, it takes AAA little bit but you know, it’s, it’s the first thing is stop absorbing negativity.

Ok? And by that, I mean, turn down social media, turn off the news if you want to get informed, get informed, but don’t watch the news. Ok. Uh, because again, that’s a product that generates and promotes fear to keep you engaged anyway, that that’s a whole other other story, right? But stop absorbing negativity, turn off the news, get informed about things that are important to you. So read the journals, read the science, read the books, read the history, get informed, right? And, and in that process begin to create a personal, what I call a personal protection system. It’s almost like your own personal kryptonite, right? Uh You’ve got to remove all the sort of tox toxicity around you, right? So family members or family or television or media or gaming or whatever it is that is that is introducing the uh the ingredients for a cocktail of fear. OK. So protect yourself, right. The second point is to listen to yourself and listen to your body because um and that goes back to that, that first phase of documenting this because so often we go through the day, right?

And we have, I don’t know, 70,000 thoughts a day. I don’t know what the number is exactly. But you have thousands and thousands of thoughts a day, right? You’ve got to listen to those and deconstruct them and dissect them and see if they really are real and that they’re serving you and also listen to your body, right? So often we find ourselves in these situations where we’ll have a gut instinct, right? You’ll be at a business lunch or you’ll be in a team meeting or you’ll be speaking to your boss or your wife or whoever and you get these pings in your body or your stomach. Those are signals, right? The body is a loudspeaker and in our modern culture, we don’t listen to it. OK? So in this second phase, protect yourself, listen to yourself. Once you start listening to yourself, you can then begin to design the new you that is fearless. What I mean by that is, is truly designing the picture of the life that you want to be living. OK? And there’s a plethora of tools out there, right?

You can listen to Mel Robbins podcast that, you know, it’s twice a week and she’s got uh all sorts of ideas on goal setting and, and not ideas, but in incredible resources on resetting your life, there’s all sorts of ways to do it. There’s vision boarding, there’s journaling, there’s 1000 ways of designing the life that you want. But you’ve got to in that process, you’ve got to be the architect, ok? You’ve got to be the, the, the architect, this the the the captain of your boat because if you don’t know where you’re navigating, right? If you don’t have a milestone marker planted out in the future, you’re gonna just drift, right? And then drift and then fear comes in and the waves get bigger, you know what, you know, the, the story, right? The milestone marker or the goals that you’ve got, they’ve all got to be broken down. We so often when you look at a motivational poster in an office and you’re or you, you, you put, you know, the house that you want or the car that you want or the life that you want up on the fridge and you kind of forget about it, right? But you’ve got to break it down into achievable goals so that you’re not just looking at a pipe dream that you’re looking at something that you’re creating.

If that makes, if that makes sense. Um You’ve got to have daily rituals to stay on track again because of the, the, the society that we live in at, at least here in the West, that personal protection system is really, really important, right? But it can be eroded so easily because of this sort of insidious hyper novel broadcasting world that we live in today. So the introduction of daily rituals, I mean, start meditating, start mindfulness, start doing yoga, start doing journaling. There’s got to be something to keep to make sure that that personal protection system isn’t eroded. You’ve got those daily rituals in place. There’s one last step or maybe it’s maybe it’s two last steps, but you’ve got to forget about what others think and forget about what you’ve learned. Forget about everything you’ve learned essentially. Now what I, I don’t mean, forget about everything you learned in school and you know, but I do mean forget about everything you learned that’s not serving you anymore. And that goes back to that inventory, right?

As you’re doing this inventory of beliefs and uh and, and self limiting beliefs and, and and uh, judgments on yourself. Um, also look at, look at, you know, what are the practices? What are the habits? What are the things that are no longer serving you that are from the past and, um, forget about them. So forget about what people think and forget about what you’ve learned that’s not serving you and take what’s serving you into the next chapter. So that would kind of be that phase two if you want of, of, of over overcoming fear. And, um, I forget what the last phase was, but, but that, that’s your new life, right? That’s the, the new you, the last phase is making the decision, right? Yeah, I mean, and that’s kind of every day almost, right? Making the decision to be, to remain in that fearless place to, you know, and, um, I think, I think if you can kind of do those steps and make sure it’s a re a recurring process, you know, you don’t just do it once and think, oh, I’m never gonna live in fear again.

It’s, it’s a, it’s a habit. Well, that’s a fantastic answer and I really appreciate you breaking it down. What do you want them, sir? It was perfect. Um, one follow up if I may and it’s about the, um, you mentioned in your answer about what it is that’s perhaps making you fearful and you gave the example of devices and news and that sort of thing. I think that some people are unaware of, um, what’s influencing their mental state. So, if you were to list off a bunch of stuff, or at least the common things around what is actually making them fearful without them knowing what would be on that list. I mean, one of the top ones would be alcohol. Alcohol is, has a huge impact on, on fear. Right on and on. Uh, um, sort of more, more paranoia if, if you like but, but it is a huge contributor to a fearful existence. Um The other one is nutrition, right?

So if you are not getting the proper nutrients and you’re not feeding your microbiome um properly, it can go off and it can completely alter your state of mental health off kilter microbiome, which they’re calling the third brain, right? Um It is, is it can send you plummeting into depression and anxiety very, very quickly. So for example, if you take a round or two of antibiotics and you know, you’ve had an infection that’s ok, you can take the antibiotics and you don’t replenish your microbiome, right very quickly. You may be get into a depressive state or a fearful state or a state of anxiety. So, so really pay attention not only to the externality around you, right? With whatever you’re consuming in terms of news or social media or friends and family and community, making sure that that is not toxic, but also what you are ingesting and the impact that, that has on your state of mental health and on fear.

So, I would really pay attention to those, those three things, external alcohol, food consumption, microbiome. Um Yeah, that would probably be, it. Nutrition is a pretty tricky one because it’s not about not doing something unless, unless you’re referring to like processed junk food or something, but it’s like, are you getting certain things? So, um do you have any thoughts about if someone is not quite sure whether they have the right nutrition? Uh What would they do? There’s the more expensive option of actually testing your microbiome and testing all of the what is going on in your body with platforms like VOM, right? That will give you a very, very detailed uh uh analysis of what is in your body and what is in your microbiome and what’s functioning and what’s not and what you need to um change in terms of in terms of your diet. But you know, II I forget the cost on that but, but the free way of doing it would be to read the ingredients on what you’re what you’re eating, right?

Um And unfortunately in the world that we live in today and there are great resources out there. Um Like Kyle means the whistleblower from Coca Cola or Brian from Food dot Lies. I mean, there’s thousands of them uh out there today saying, wait guys, we, we are living in a world where um so much of our food is hyper processed and you don’t even think about it, like think about bread. Ok. So next time you go to the store and you pick up a loaf of bread, read the ingredients because you know, often the third ingredient will be sugar, right? And um or go and pick up a package of roast beef and, and read it, read the ingredients and you’d be surprised that, you know, beef might be only 15% of, of what is in that package, right? The rest is artificial fillers and soy and all this other stuff. So you don’t have to spend money to be attentive to what is going inside your body.

And um and that would be my recommendation if you can afford it, look into something like volume. If you can’t start to read the ingredients and start to understand how so much of what’s out there in our world today is designed for addiction, right? So whether it’s social media, whether it’s alcohol, whether it’s sugar, whether it’s processed foods with, you know, high levels of carbohydrates. I don’t want to turn into a nutritionist on this, on this channel, but there is a, there’s a massive massive correlation between what you’re eating and your mental health. There’s no doubt. So it would be an emphasis on adding more base ingredients and less of ingredients you can’t pronounce back to basics. Exactly. So read the labels, you’ll be shocked in terms of making the change, any thoughts about it’s, I would say it’s probably difficult because, uh, you walk into a supermarket, the, the majority of the products are gonna be processed.

Uh, I think there’s, there’s a few aisles where they don’t have that but, um, any thoughts about implementing, not necessarily speci specific to nutrition but good habits. Uh, I, you know, my one piece of advice would really be, uh, be kind and gentle to yourself, right? And make, don’t try and make a monumental shift, right? All at once because that’s never very helpful um or very successful but start to make small incremental changes, you know, um if you want to live without fear, begin by with that design of the new you, what what do you want the new view to look like? What does the fearless you look like? Right? Start to design that picture, start to journal it, start to articulate it and articulate it in great detail. How do you wanna live? Where do you wanna live? What do you wanna eat? What do you want to surround you like, really paint a full picture of, of the the tapestry of your life um and make, make incremental, small changes on a daily basis, right?

Just um you know, these these things of like New Year’s resolution, I’m gonna change everything, they never work, right? So um life is too freaking hard to to do all that at once, but you know, if you, if you look at those three phases that you and I spoke about at the beginning, you know, recognizing it, inventorying it and then breaking it down and then deciding to make the change that, you know, take a year to do that, do it slowly do it. You know, I’m not a big proponent of quick and simple and easy and, uh, you know, that’s just the fast food of, of mental health and coaching and doesn’t work. Mm. Change takes time, change takes time. And I think, I think, I think it’s worth recognizing the challenging times we live in. Right. I mean, uh, you know, I know you live in the UK and I’m in Canada and like my God, this stuff that’s going on is, is complex, right?

And, and, um, so don’t be too hard on yourself. I think that the, um, the three phases that you put forth are excellent. And I think for the most part, if people were actually to implement them, then, uh, they would see a big difference in their lives. Have you got any thoughts about perhaps, um, common failures? So, someone who tries to do it, perhaps they’re not doing it in the right way or it hasn’t worked for them for some reason because they’re not doing X anything that comes to mind for you. Sure. If you didn’t feel like it worked the first time, right? This, this transition or this change into fearlessness. You’ve got to go back and look at um that inventory of stories that you’re telling yourself because so often what happens is people will, uh you know, if you can visualize a, a vat or a tank full of gasoline or oil, people will be looking at the very top layer with maybe positivity, right? Oh, everything’s great. I’m happy, I’m doing this bla bla like happy, happy, happy, happy, positive, listening to affirmations and you know, the right, the right podcasts and the right meditations and stuff like that.

Um You know, this law of attraction and abundance, everything, right? Oh I got it going on. But underneath that, you are probably still telling yourself those stories you were telling yourself in the past. OK. So my advice would be go back and look at that inventory, go back and look at the self limiting beliefs because if it’s not working for you, it means you still need to deconstruct those beliefs and narratives in your head and the stories in your head. Um There, there, there has to be some tension there still because that the the the the the superficial layer on top of that, that seems fine and dandy. But underneath it, you’re telling yourself still the old stories. So that’s typically why it fails, right? There’s actually one of the things I was gonna clarify with you and I think you’re answering one of the, one of my questions which is um it’s situational. So, you know, right now I feel great.

I feel like I can do anything. But as I get closer and closer to that thing that I’m scared about, I get more and more fearful. And is this the answer to that question? Yeah. Sure. Because you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re beneath that sort of, uh, visceral emotional fear that you can feel in your body and your mind. There’s, there must be some kind of narrative or story or belief or it’s, there’s something still there. You know, it’s like a wound that, that hasn’t been properly cleaned and it’s kind of a gross analogy, isn’t it? Sorry? But, but you know what I mean? It’s like you’ve got to dig out all of those demons and stories and beliefs and figure out where they came from and, and you know, if, if they’re not serving, you’ve got to go back and forgive that child or that young adult where that, that idea or that belief came from. And, you know, we, we carry so much with us right throughout life that we be, we see life through these opaque lenses, right?

So I’m just saying, make sure you all those Len or curtains are whatever you wanna call it, make sure they’re gone. So you can see clearly and, and you’re right, fear has this tendency to, to come back and to, to, to, to swell up um without you even really noticing it much because you’re you, you still have some of those stories on that, that need to be addressed. If someone does have, uh, if they have a particularly difficult time with a, with a fear or something they’re afraid of, you’d help them through that doing this process. Is that right? Yeah, you really want to, I mean, the process is, is almost sort of laser precision storytelling, right? Or story finding, right? So, you, you know, I keep asking, where’s that coming from? Where is that coming from?

Where is, what is the origin of this belief? And it’s amazing, Thomas, like sometimes the origin story of a belief in a, in a, in a mature adult is from, you know, when they were nine years old and there was a divorce in the family and they felt that they had to compensate or, you know, when they’re 10 and maybe the family was slightly dysfunctional at the time as they all are. And the, you know, the eldest child thought that they had to, you know, take control of everything. Well, now they’re 30 they’re doing that same thing in the office, right? So it’s, it’s really interesting when we, when we, when we go and kind of do a bit of Sherlock Holmes into the origin of each of those beliefs because they all have an origin story. OK. So the work to do is to go and find that find the origin story and often when an adult um, when an adult finds the origin story, it’s kind of like this huge relief.

That’s like, oh, that’s what, that’s where it came from. Right. It’s like, well, I don’t need that anymore. That’s what I mean. But it’s not serving me well, I’m not in a family relationship. Uh, it’s dysfunctional and I’m 10 years old or I’m nine and we had, you know, parents got divorced. That’s over. Ok. And, and I don’t wanna go into therapy with you about it, but we could go back in time, we can recognize it, acknowledge it, forgive it and move forward. And that’s what I mean by removing those lenses because the lens of me having to be a 10 year old and having to fix the family. That’s one that, you know, my nine years old and there’s a divorce and I have to, you know, it’s my fault and I have to compensate for everything and I have to, you know, be a people pleaser. Oh, that’s another lens. So you begin to, you, you, you, we cloud our, we cloud our lives through these lenses and these stories and many of them create fear and engage fear and keep it lit and keep it going.

So my work is all right. Let’s deconstruct those, let’s find, let’s, you know, it’s like, it’s like investigative journalism. Maybe that’s a better analogy than surgery. Well, it’s a, it’s a great process and I appreciate you sharing it. Have you, um, got any favorite examples that you are proud of where you’ve helped someone through a fear like this? Yeah. You know, I, I, I’ve got lots of them. I mean, the, the, that one example that I just gave you of somebody who, who, uh, who found herself, uh, sort of taking control of everything in the office. Right. Having to, you know, and, and it wasn’t her role and she was sort of a junior in, actually in, in the UK and, and, uh, and, and she’s like, why am I doing this? You know, like it’s just, it’s destructive and it’s like, not good for me. It’s not good for my colleagues. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s creating tension and, and so we, we, we went back and we, we’ve kind of, we’ve figured out where she needed this w desire to take control of everything.

And it was that example from when she was 10 and the family was slightly dysfunctional and, you know, now they’re all fine but, you know, as a, as a child you see maybe your parents fighting or some tension or whatever and family stuff and you think, oh, I have to take control. Right. I’m the eldest. I have to take control. I have to manage my siblings and, you know, sort of manage my parents and, and, you know, I, I see that all the time, that sort of, um, I should call it. Yeah. Origin origin story. Deconstruction, I guess is the medical term that I just made up? I have to write that. Thank you. Thank you for that. Um Is there anything I should have asked you about today? No, I don’t think so. I thought we had fun. I think, I think we’re good for today. If you have any questions, I can always come back if people want to uh connect with you or hire you. Where do they go? Um I guess uh just calling kingsmill.com or whole Human coaching.com. I’m also on Instagram. So uh yeah, I’m easily findable.

I seem to get found every day on linkedin by all sorts of people that want to uh sell me something more. So, um Yeah. Right. Exactly. Increase your whatever anyway. Yeah, that’s where to find me. And do you have any closing thoughts for us today? I don’t, the only, well, maybe I do the only the, the, the, the one closing thought would be if you are in a place of suffering, right? Or in a fearful place, just know that it does not have to be like this. There’s hope and there’s a way out it, it, it, it’s not your story to live in fear. We have a right to not live in fear. That’s it. It was a great one to end on and uh thank you for being a great guest today. Colin Hey Thomas. Thanks a lot. It was good to be here. Thank you. Very much.