#300 – Listen To Your Heart With Carlos Davidovich

Thomas Green here with Ethical Marketing Service on the episode today, we have Carlos Davidovich. Carlos, welcome. Thanks a lot for your invitation Thomas. I’m delighted to be here. It is very much my pleasure. Would you like to take a moment and tell the audience a bit about yourself and what you do? OK. Just uh let’s say in a nutshell, I mean, born and raised in Argentina and as a professional medical doctor MD and I was working also in business in pharmaceutical business in one specific niche that was biotechnology that we used to call it the science fiction of Pharma.

And it still is, by the way, 2000, around 2000 moved to Europe and I had to re invent it myself and I ended uh working in leadership development. So uh helping uh organi organization people in organizations regarding leadership and let’s say human behavior because they have also a background in psychology and uh and doing uh giving lectures uh workshops and doing executive coaching. So I work a lot, one on one or teams regarding that 2013, I was invited to work and live in Canada. So I uh and IIII I will never die with a what if? So I tried and I went to Toronto and I spent seven years of my life there and the pandemic brought me back to Europe and now I’m based in Madrid in Spain. So more or less in a nutshell. That’s the story. Well, yeah, there’s a, there’s a lot to ask you about um as we discussed before. Um I had a look at the TEDX talk, which I will link in the description.

Um And you have a, I don’t know whether you’d call it a specialty in um knowing about the brain. Uh How did that come about? So, in one moment that was uh already, I don’t know. Oh yeah, maybe close to 15 or 20 years ago, I found out I heard about someone that was connecting, how the brain works with organization, with human behavior and apply to organizations. In that moment. I figured out that I was bilingual in business and medicine. So I was able to, to connect and to bridge those two worlds. So I, and I found, I found it fascinating. So what I do, I call it neuro management because there’s no other way. Uh Other word so far is to apply the latest practical tips from neuroscience, how the brain works in organizations and business. And again, it’s about human behavior, how people connect with each other. Today. We have a lot of more information than before. So we can explain better how our brain works or we call it brain, we can talk about the mind is a different story.

Uh We can go there later and uh and that helps a lot to people that needs to rationalize and I respect that and to understand rationally uh why people react in certain certain way. And that is what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to make it easier for people to understand themselves and people around them based on neuroscience. Thank you for that. And um I find the area fascinating. So I got loads of questions. Um But the, the first one I always tend to ask about when people have expertise um in the area of the brain is based on what you have learned. Uh How has it changed you in terms of the uh the actions that you take on a day to day basis? Given that the fact that you know about what’s going on up there. That’s a great question. That was a fantastic question. I tell you, I, I like to say it in this way when I knowing more about this stuff is to have a new type of glasses.

So you start seeing and reading and understanding behavior in a different way. When, when uh in my coaching practice, of course, people refer about a lot of issues, not necessarily problems or maybe the development, but I always read between the lines. That is my work because I know what is behind. So when they say they are very rational people and I know they are not, I then try to highlight and to transmit the importance of our emotions. And uh I will start by the end. But you know, I mean, from us already, we are emotional beings with a brand new rational software that still, even though give us such a huge, I mean, possibilities still we don’t trust and trust. Trust in human behavior is essential in teams in family, in couples. The concept of trust and that relies in a different level in the brain.

So then when I discuss, when I, again, when I try to support my clients, I listen from a different state of mind that is in the way that knowing more about the brain was changing the way I perceive the way I listen and also the way I can support and give uh some tips to my clients make sense. Yeah, it does. And um the, the funny thing about the um the TED talk um that where you speak about the person who says I am a, I am a rational person is that it sounds very much like something that I would say. I, I would slightly rephrase it in the sense that I say I aspire to be a rational person. Um But what do you think if, if someone is saying that what do you think are, are the main misconceptions about stating that you are a personal, a person who is completely rational. What do you, what, what are the alarms that go off in your head around that?

The first one is I take it like a defense mechanism because if I stick to the concept of rationality makes me feel safer because it’s something I can touch, I can grab, you know, in, mainly in those analytical personality, you know, they need to see processes if they don’t see the processes doesn’t exist, but the human brain doesn’t work in that way. And that has a key point. What I try to transmit in a very, I would say respectful way is definitely we need to lead our life or deal our life with rational thinking. Please don’t get me wrong. But there is no way that that rational thinking will not be influenced by our emotions. And the the the problem is that the word emotional has a very negative connotations in any language. We say it in a negative way. You are emotional means, you cannot manage your emotion, you cannot manage yourself.

That is not what I’m trying to say. Emotions. It’s like uh let’s say the cover of everything that happens in our life is the color that we give to our rational thinking. But based on that emotions is also the way that our rational thinking will uh developed. If I can understand my what emotions are behind those rational thinking, I can make it better in another word if I can and I can. If I want to put myself in the side of it, let’s call it positive emotions, positive emotion is not about being happy all day. Ok? It’s a completely different topic. So happiness is not about being positive. Positive is an attitude. It’s the way I see life is the way I deal with life. It’s a way to focus on solutions rather than problems. The happiness is a different animal. OK? Different territory. So what I’m trying to talk is about being positive in the way that will move you forward.

If I can then establish in myself um basic uh state of positive emotions I will use in a much better and productive way. My rational mind makes sense. Tell me if I’m explaining myself, please. If it’s OK, perfect sense. So what I’m trying to say is emotions could be negative, could be something that will take me or, or hold me back or, or not helping me moving forward and then my rational thinking will follow that. So the rational brain is still, I mean, is uh we don’t know we it is limitless. We don’t know how the limit of our rational brain. We don’t know the limit of our brain in general uh scientifically talk it. But the possibility of rational brains are again endless. I mean, look at the technology, look at what we are doing. Look, I mean, II I don’t want to, to fall in the cliche of the Judge CPT. But it’s a, it’s a product of the rational mind.

So, what I’m trying to say is, hey, we have an amazing tool even though the way to use it in the right way, or let’s say, in a productive way is determined by the emotion that is behind. So if I can like the emotion, emotions will be like the, let’s say the carrier, you know, and the rational brain can take us really, really far. But if we can manage ourselves in what we call the, I call the internal team, those different characters that we have inside. Yeah, it’s really interesting. Um And it, it comes back to uh I think one of the, the the five areas of the brain that you talk about. Um Do you mind just sharing a summary of, of what um what those are, please? I will uh I love to do that. So that was, is a constructor based on, on scientific information. And in that moment, I had a kind of uh insight saying, hey, wait, wait, wait, we don’t have one brain.

So our body uh uh is a more complex uh system and then let’s talk about concrete things. We have a lot of neurons here. Let’s call it the the headquarter of the brain that the one is here that through evolution, nature didn’t replace what it was adding components, the instinctual part first, then the emotional part now, the rational part don’t get me wrong because today, there are many people against the triune uh theory of the brain. I’m not saying that we can divide the brain on three. That’s not, that’s not true. The brain is completely intertwined, but we have instinctual behaviors. We have emotional behaviors, we have rational behavior. So still we can, it’s easy to identify those components. One thing that I didn’t study when I study medicine is that we have neurons in our heart. So our heart also is connected with the upper brain and is interacting in a very curious way.

It seems like the heart and and I don’t want to go to the romantic side, but maybe in the future we will, we will talk about that. But it seems that the heart can be a reservoir of memory and definitely no doubt is connected with our emotions. The examples I like to do is medically talking anyone that goes through any kind of heart intervention or heart attack or something that will mobilize or connect with the heart. The incidence of psychological issues is higher after psychological or mental issues. So there is a connection, there doesn’t happen with any other organ in our body. And the number the the the fifth one is our gut. Now it’s very popular to talk about the gut brain, you know, it’s everywhere, but we have a complete nerve system in our gut and uh is so powerful that is the responsible of producing serotonin, that is the substance connected with our mood.

So that is one of the reasons there are many more that our digestive system is so connected with our emotional being. So uh and that is something everyone understand, you know, you’re nervous and then your stomach or your gut. I mean, it is not in good shape and people can have it in a more complicated uh setting like certain diseases, but like our digestive system, there is no way we will not react to an emotional impact. So got heart and three here is why I call metaphorically talking the framework of the five range. Really interesting. And um it reminds me of, you know, that phrase of uh following your heart instead of your head. Um my uh aspire to be uh rational, my aspiration to be rational. I would think in my, in my mind that, well, you know, the heart is just um something that pumps blood around the body. But in, in actual fact, you’ve just uh provided a rebuttal for that. So that’s very interesting.

And I tell you I so much, II I haven’t, I’m very interesting and I, I share with you because we talked before. I’m very interested in, in inner development and, and personal development. I’m connecting dots. But by myself, you know, I mean, connecting dots about what all philosophers were saying and what we understand today. And I don’t want to go I don’t wanna go deep on this rabbit hole. What I’m gonna say is the first doctors, let’s say, or the first philosophers, they thought that everything started in the heart, that was the heart, it was not the brain. And of course, science proved that this one is quite powerful, but maybe in the future, we will understand what they were saying 3000 years ago or 2000 years ago. So there is something else that still we are not able to understand, that’s for sure many things. And mainly what is the, I would say the what what kind of play our heart has in our whole behavior and and I don’t believe in chance, I don’t believe in and, and things that happen just because I think that it causes effect and more complex things and, and even though they, we call the romantic things, I mean, people really can feel the pain in the body in the area of the heart.

There are many things, many things and OK, I didn’t mention but in many languages we have saying that involves the heart as a reservoir of memory like uh you know, I know it by heart in English, I know of heart. What, what are you talking about? I know it by heart or in Spanish. Remember? Recordar is going through the heart and bring information. So there is something there that is a fantastic, I mean opportunity to, to search and to look and to understand better. So what that, I don’t know why I’m asking this question, but I, I just like to get your, uh, your thoughts on it. Cos uh, there is such a thing these days as the heart transplant. Have you got any thoughts about, um, separate from, you know, how it would operate physically, what that would do to someone who, you know, changing their character, maybe. Well, definitely you have the information. That’s why they asked this question between 20 25% of people receiving a new heart, they change personality 100%.

And of course, that was very curious, very weird, very odd. And there was a group of researchers in the United States. They were able to identify the donors. The new characteristics of the receptor were the characteristics of the donors. And that sounds very creepy. I, I take it OK, I think I was gonna say amazing. That’s what I was gonna say. I love it, love it. Thomas. I, I think I use the word creepy as a, a shield. You know, those people say, oh my God. But I need to tell you something personal. Ok, I’m telling this story. Um I told this story many times many, many years living in Canada in two or two. And I of course, how many people I can reach? Not so many, I mean 1000 maybe. Ok, 1000 people. No, no, the big population in two opportunities in the audience were somebody that told me my sister has exactly that situation. She went through cardiac transplantation and now I cannot recognize her.

She changed taste the way uh sport activities is a different person in two opportunities. One was a sister, the other one was a father. And I said, oh, I tell you, I was, I was like, oh my God, because I didn’t have so close experience, you know. So, I mean, and this, it’s anecdotal, of course, it’s not the uh statistically proven anything. But, and for me, that means that it is more common than we think. Fascinating. Um And I, I don’t know uh if you have any thoughts about this, I’ve asked this before and um I’m, I’m not sure I’ve got a clear answer on it, but you, you talked about the areas of the brain and also maybe the heart, my um question is around being able to notice when that happens. So let’s say, um you are getting particularly emotional and that might be the reptilian brain. Um Do you have any thoughts or tactics around maybe noticing uh so that you can regulate your behavior better uh to know where your thoughts are coming from?

Another good, great question. I, I, yesterday I, I’m coaching, I still coaching many bullies to be honest people that has this kind of reptilian attitude toward people, very bright people in top position, but still the reptilian brain is in control. And when I work with those people is to identify the trigger because the first reaction is always, I don’t know when I will be aggressive or violent with my people or my family because you cannot separate both of them. So the consequences are in personal life and in working life. But in my experience, always, we are able to identify a trigger, a moment that that person knows that is coming. They don’t think about it at the moment. I’m bringing this up. They start to, to, to, to doing some kind of scanning. And I say, hey, yeah, every time that that that that happens, then I become very aggressive.

So we have a plan, we build a plan. The plan is because I know how the the brain is not easy to change. I mean, unless you really make the effort to do the to make the change. Question number one, the pattern can be changed. The answer is yes, but you need to want to change it. It’s a real thing. And what we do is step number one at the moment at the beginning. For sure, I tell this person, let’s say ex client at the beginning, you will not be able to stop but you will perceive the trigger. So step number one, say sorry as soon as you can because that will come, but then apologize faster. That is creating a different loop inside. And what happened through time is that when they identified the trigger. I said go away, go for a walk, stop reacting why they are, they want to do it. Well, number one, because the consequences of being aggressive, they are very negative.

But number two, what I sell to them in a positive way is you are a control freak. Most of us we are and this is a way your aggression is a way to keep the control because nobody reacts to you. So you’re in control. What about if you apply that power of being in control to yourself? And you will see this exponential results in the way your team will work with you in the way your family will be with you, your wife, your kids. So let’s apply the same energy in a different direction. And we talk a lot about the, there’s no need for those aggressions and I’m not talking about everybody is calm. We don’t react. No, no, no. I mean, we have the our moods goes up and down but not necessarily are peaks and valleys so pronounced that provoke this kind of negative connection. So I don’t want to, to be too long on this, but we already have steps to follow.

And you cannot imagine Thomas how, how powerful they feel at the moment, they can control the system, they can control their and then they start seeing right away that the impact on other is more positive and they can get even more from people if they treat them, let’s say in a normal human relationship, connection, it takes time for the people around them to believe this change because they are all the time waiting, ok, at any time will come again. So it’s longer the process. But at the moment, you can establish this, definitely you can control, you need to identify the trigger. Always there is one trigger. It’s an in, in medicine, it’s called the aura when with certain diseases, when they’re going to a epilepsy. For instance, there is something that will tell you is coming and in this kind of reaction and controlled reaction, there is also kind of a a kind of trigger.

So is uh increased heartbeat. An example of one of those that could be one that could be one another person told me is uh he was feeling something in the stomach at the moment. I feel this ex ex uh symptoms in my stomach. I know I will react. That was another example, the heartbeat variability could be another one. So what I try is to use the power, they have to explode in a different direction in a more let’s say positive way. And at the moment, they see the the the results of the change on people’s behavior towards them is like, I mean, people say wow, now we can talk now, now, now we are we, I mean we are, we really can discuss, we can talk and and that is very, I know, I don’t know if I’m responding to your question. But the point is that the most difficult components of our internal team is the reptilian one is the most difficult one. Not because it’s fast, it’s very fast, not because all we wants to win.

So give us this kind of nice feeling of winning. And these people feel as a winner all the time. But the the most complicated thing is, is the part of our brain ourselves that we trust the most. And again, I go back to the concept of trust because we know internally that civilization is alive because of survival reaction, you know, and be able to survive. So we need to uh like I said in the TED talk, let’s keep this reptilian brain as a first responder for emergencies, but we don’t need it anymore for our daily life. Yeah, you, you made a couple of interesting points and uh I just wanted to highlight one of them, which is uh the um a lot of people like to, I if they’re in that leadership position, control as much as they can. Um And you highlight the fact that it sounds a lot like a bias in the sense that they are not noticing the fact that they’re not controlling their own emotions. And um you also provided a solution. So um for those that do want to control it, if they notice that trigger that you mentioned, um the solution is to kind of get away from the environment, say sorry as quickly as possible if it’s necessary.

And I think that’s a really good answer. Um, the, you did mention the fact that, uh, you coach a lot of bullies, uh, in your, in your words. Um, how do you feel about that? Uh, well, I didn’t know how I, I became this kind of coach but between you and me, Thomas, I love it. Those are people that they can take whatever you say because that’s the reality and there’s, there’s no sugar coating thing, they can take it. So at the moment, I’m not saying 100% of them can make the change. At the moment they can make the change. Oh my God, you have a very powerful and kind personality when they understand that helping is not what they are doing. Exactly. And, and that another misunderstanding of these people and they think that they are powerful because in the way they are this kind of aggressive personality. No, they are powerful because of their skills because they know a lot. So that’s another change of mindset.

You’re not good or you’re not in your position VP or whatever or CEO because you, you, you shout on people or you yell, no, it’s not the reason that is a negative side of you. It’s because you know a lot you were, I mean, you’re intelligent. So let’s focus on your positive side and then we can deal with the other one. I try to take out the importance of this kind of uh type of control in others. So your question is, how do I feel? I feel those people very relaxed because first of all, I need to be honest, I will never, never work for them. Never. I would die based on my personality. So I can’t, I can’t have as a bo somebody like this but as a peer, I mean, somebody, I mean, I have, I mean, uh they, they trust me. It’s fantastic because they are very open. And the step number one, when I’m uh, called to coach, uh, this kind of personality is we need to identify motivation for a change without a real motivation.

Sometimes it’s family. I remember one case that was nothing about the company was the ceo of a very manufacturing company, very bully, of course. And the board wants, ok, let’s do something. Normally, let’s be honest. Normally the company wants to do something but there is a legal issue involved, you know, they don’t care because this type of people, they bring results all the time. And in this case, I don’t want to derail. OK, so tell like, help me with it. But in this case, his motivation was relationship with his daughter because his daughter didn’t want to, to talk to him anymore because of his personality. So that was the motivation to make the change at work. I I mean in himself that will impact the work was a personal issue. And we were talking a lot about his personal situation and family situation because that was important for him. And I need to, I, I even though I say it not in a funny way, I say you need to convince me what is your motivation for change for a change?

Because you were like this all your life, why to change? And you were successful and you think because you are like this, it’s not true. But OK, convince me and then we can work. So and, and we go to all these places. I mean, one guy was, was going to be retired in three years. I don’t want to be fired three years before I’m retired. This is not about money. It’s about, yeah, it’s about my personal, let’s say interest in life. But did you get that with his daughter? So yeah, he, oh gosh, II, I was uh was uh ii I don’t want to go deep. It was a different language. I mean, the language was not English. And in one moment we decided because the daughter left the house, was living in another country. So we were writing letters together, how to, how to communicate with the daughter and to say what’s going on, what happened. He was apologizing. So he had to re uh to, to translate it to English for me because his language was out language and, and finally the daughter finally accepted because understood.

Of course, it’s, it’s her father in the end but she was very tough. She was adult. No, a young adult. And, uh, was waiting for the change and he was able to show that. No. Well, congratulations. Um, it does make me, uh, wonder about if you’ve got any other sort of favorite, um, case studies or examples of people that you’ve helped about around this or in, in general about this, this you say uh you could do coaching or um psychology, you know, what, what’s something that, that sort of comes to you if you, if you were to say, um you know, what’s your favorite example of someone that you’ve helped? Ok. There was one guy 30 years in the company now was the CEO in charge of uh the business in one country, big country in Canada. Doesn’t matter because the company was not, Canadian was uh was not from Canada. And oh God, the same situation, you know, the bully and, and, and he, he was treating really, really badly people was a manufacturing company. So tell me what do you do? Six o’clock in the morning, he was walking in the, in the manu in the uh in the place where they were making the product of manufacture in the for and just checking that everything was ok.

At the moment he saw somebody doing something wrong. Oh my God was terrible. And I was very curious, I say, uh, sorry, do you have somebody in between you and them? I mean, there is somebody there because you are see. Yeah. Yeah, of course they have the, the, the manager and why they are not taking care of them. I know you. And he said, well, um, but he was not able to explain it. So we established as a rule. The rule was you will keep coming six o’clock in the morning to the manufacturing company to the manufacturing uh uh area. And if you detect something wrong, shut up, you turn, go to the office and call your number two and he or she will deal with the situation. That was the deal. It took time I tell you. Uh but the interesting part and that’s what I want to share with you when you ask me this, I think I don’t remember three months later or four months later, we were ok checking that everything was ok, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And he said Carlos finally I can sleep. Excuse me. What are you talking about? I didn’t know about that. He didn’t tell me. Yeah, I was not sleeping well for years now. The with his dynamic now I’m sleeping because he learned to delegate finally. But what listened to is interesting. He was like this because he felt responsible for everything in the factory. He thought if I’m not solving this, we are in trouble, not in an arrogant way in a hyper responsible way. And at the moment he was able to trust others and to start delegating properly, he started resting, relaxing and sleeping. And for me it was, wow, this is something I didn’t think. I didn’t know the truth. But for me, it was interesting. It’s fascinating because I tell you again, it’s not people. I, it’s, well, some could be mean but it’s not because it was mean because it was too much responsible in the wrong way.

Let’s say, I don’t know if that helped, but that was one story that came to my mind when you ask. Well, it’s, um, it sounds like you’ve helped him individually a lot and presumably that’s a knock on effect to the company then. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they have different interests but, ok, you need to know how to balance the interests of the board, the interest of the boss, the interest of them. But in the end it’s a better outcome, that’s for sure for everyone. Thank you for that. I think it’s always nice to hear the, um, sort of individual examples. I appreciate it. Uh, just touching on, uh, the coming back to the brain just for a moment. I always like to ask about, um, other than the ones that we’ve discussed, what would you say? The biggest misconceptions are around the topic of the brain. The biggest one is that we, again, we believe we are, we are Russian pure rational beings, the decision making process in the brain is physically located in the emotional brain, not in the rational brain. So we need to involve some kind of emotions and people.

The big misunderstanding is I make rational decisions. No, you’re not. And if we are aware of that again, we can apply positive emotions to make better decisions. So let’s be clear of this interaction inside of us. Rationality is the best tool. we have no doubt but needs to be needs to be covered by positive emotions. And with our instinct to let it they’re sleeping, let’s say until we really need them misunderstanding. Number one is this hyper focus on being rational and and this kind of uh internal need, I’m rational because that gives us I I already said it a false feeling of control and I say the false because none of us another misunderstanding that we can control everything, forget it, we’ll get it.

So if we can be more humble, I mean, in, in, in the, in the right way, I mean to understand that the topic is not about being in control of everything. It’s been adaptable to what I need to be adaptable. Then then what I need to develop is my capacity to understand how things are moving all the time in my life in the market. When there is about product or in my team, things are in permanent change. The brain hates changes because brings uncertainty but we know the truth. I mean, the cliche, you know, the only constant in life is change, you know, said by Heraclitus or whatever. But we know it’s a fact but still we are in denial. If we can really talk to ourselves and to understand that this is a fact every single day, then we can walk our life in a completely different way more in an odd state.

I mean, oh, like a, to, to, to observe, to see the changes and to, and to be prepared on how to adapt to those changes that we need to be adapted to make sense. Makes sense. I did just have one follow up on it, which is um that person who says I’m a very rational person. Um uh cos it’s, it’s like part of their identity or they, they perceive it to be, what would you encourage them to say instead of that? I, I, you remind me of one anecdote when, when people normally or in the coaching practice, they say I’m a very rational, I’m I’m a pure rational person. My my response or joke is, oh gosh, what limited are you? Because you are not using a lot of other tools that you have. So the right way to understand the system is I’m highly, I’m no, highly, no, I’m emotional. I have emotions, let’s put it. I have emotions and instant I can identify my, when I am in this emotion, I can name it to name.

Emotion is a very powerful tool. And then I know what is the best one to leverage my rational brain. My rational part because I will not think in the same way if the emotion is not the right emotions, what I want is that they will understand the power of emotion without being in denial because they were emotional. Sounds like a weak, a weakness, something too soft is the less soft things that we have in the brain or emotions because they are in charge of everything. So learn which one is the most powerful mind. You because it’s, it’s different to each of us and learn how to deal with that, not to repress, to deal with it, to accept it and you will see how your rational brain will follow. Yeah, I think II I get what you’re um what you mean. Uh My interpretation of that is like you’re effective at using the various different parts of your brain rather than just using one of them.

So and yeah, highly agree. Um You didn’t, you didn’t talk about something normally comes always because it’s the famous saying of the gut feeling and the intuition because intuition again has a negative marketing in certain level, but there is no successful leader that doesn’t exist a successful leader in any organization that is not high in intuition. I work with one assessment that we test personalities, character, personal character and behavioral traits. Intuition is one and the person that created this assessment. Uh and then we were searching all over the, the, the the topic, let’s say they are not success in life if you don’t understand the language of your intuition. And that is something again, kind of scary for some people except for top, top top managers or executive in company.

Never, absolutely never does my target in general. Never. Some of them told me, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Never top unsuccessful executive or people managing organizations. They say, I perfectly know Carlos, what you’re talking about. My team is saying, let’s go there. And my dad said, no, let’s go there. And then when I always try to explain for the rational mind and to accept it, our gut feeling is the best version of Google is an algorithm. So more experience you have your intuition will work better because has more information is a different way to connect dots again, is I cannot see the process. Then analytical people will say uh I don’t believe in this. And definitely I’m not saying that it’s always right. I’m saying it’s another source of information and you brought this to me in the way you say, hey man, you have many tools don’t leave some of them aside because maybe the response is there.

And the combination of all these characteristics that we have as a human being are the ones that will take us to a better place Well, thank you for that. Um, I can 100% see how, uh, having you as a coach, as a type of leader would be beneficial. So, and I feel like I’ve had like a bit of an educated talking too, so I appreciate the conversation. Um, do you, if, if someone wants to hire you, where do they go? Ok. I have my website, I mean, WW, Carlos davidovich.com. Very easy. And if not in linkedin, you put my name and again, it’s very easy to, to connect to me. I mean, uh I, I will not, I mean, the email is there so it’s, it’s easy and, and even my phone number and if you can call me, no problem at all. I mean, I’m, I’m sorry, I, even though my last name, I’m Latino. So, I mean, I’m very close that I had to learn to keep it in place when I deal with people all over the world, they are different cultures.

And do you have any closing thoughts for us today in the end is about, and I will go back to something that we talked before we started in the end. It’s about how you feel with yourself in the end. It’s about your personal development. That is the umbrella to all the rest. And when I tried to be Leon is identify, what is your purpose, identify what is your purpose in life? Because never is a profession. A work never is work but work fills everything in our life. OK? Don’t get me wrong. And you know that there is an old stereotype. Uh Men always can define other men when they ask, what do you do? No females are more open minded. They have a different conception, different way. I’m generalizing now. And this is, I know this is a stereotype but it’s a positive one.

And in the female conversation will, they will take care of more and more holistic things that we don’t. We say, OK, what do you do? We’re aiming. No, let’s try to move from that place because again, it’s quite limited. So let’s now, there are a lot of um mindfulness, a lot of things that are coming to the mainstream that we, we never believe that we’re going to come to the mainstream. And I will share one anecdote with you. I am working with the company, top high end technical products. One of the things that hr is offering only for top leaders is because they go to retreats and they go to training. I mean, the typical things in organization the most popular now is a retreat that they do in the middle of nowhere, three days without talking and is led by monk, a Buddhist monk.

When I heard about this film, as I say, oh my God, things are changing. I’m talking about a company that the product is about, everything is about now and they are very, very all engineers and that is what the company say. This is what you need. Let’s start, let’s start bringing together all this part that we have that in a very wrong way. We were separating and putting different buckets. Let’s start putting all them on the same bucket and the bucket is ourselves. Well, thank you for your time today and your, your contribution in general. I kind of feel like it’s been a really interesting conversation. Carlos. Thank you for being a great guest. Come on. Thanks for the invitation.